its extremely comforting to see that in this harsh world of start ups, there are still entreprenuers who stick hard and fast to their beliefs and visions, without comprimise, even in the face of a greater dollar. other than hardwork, its nothing short of god's grace that they managed to do well even when turning down the obvious route to riches just to strongly (albeit a little naively) hold fast to doing the right thing. how often do you hear a successful person who tells you "we don't do this (which isn't even something wrong) because we don't believe in it". its like intentionally adding barriers to yourself. as if the road of an entreprenuer isn't rough enough.
i must say i disagree with tong yee's point that sports do not teach skills that are transferable to the real world. sure, there are no hard skills, but there are soft skills aplenty. values such as tenacity, determination, discipline, teamwork are much better experienced in sports as opposed to the "nerdy" CCA. on the other hand, i think shelfing books, setting up visualisers, sitting in an aircon room can't achieve these as well.
i also have another question/issue - isn't it a tad too dangerous for an organization to be built around one person? i mean (god forbids) that person gets into an accident, then the company is going to disappear? shouldn't there always be transition of leadership, planning for worse case scenario? maybe not.
i'm a little acquainted with the whole NE framework and the problem with teachers, so I must say that its extremely gratifying to know that there are teachers who are out there willing to try to change the system. it is worth noting that in a lot of the independent schools which control their hiring, there are many teachers who are equally inspirational and are interested in trying to shape mindsets. even in the moe, there are good teachers who want to shape their kids beyond the textbook. unfortunately, there are (possibly more) teachers who really don't give a crap.
on a slightly related note about mindsets,
Get fit, get a bonus
Some firms rewarding workers for keeping fit, recycling, charity work
i think this is ridiculous. why do you need KPIs to make people care about their own health and the world around them :S is this asymptomatic of our education system? no KPI = don't do? its like compulsory CIP hours all over again :S
respect/adversity award: Chin Leng from SingaporeBrides.com
(i think) for many singaporeans, the story normally ends at the abyss. being adverse to adversity and change is really not going to help our case. can we really have a high adversity quotient in a country that has enjoyed many years great economic success with a government that has done a stellar job in deploying infrastructure? how can we deal with upset, failure and rejection?
i'm quite a suck for "against all odds" stories. Chin Leng may not be the coolest, most eloquent, smartest person around, but he's mighty resilient. and that deserves respect (even Hoong An used him as inspiration).
persuasionFAIL award: Hoong An from HungryGoWhere
prof ben tried something similar for cs1101s. he tried to tell us why we SHOULD not do it. he got seniors to tell us why we should not do it as well. in the end, only 2 (i think) people got off the "speeding bullet train". to any aspiring entreprenuer, i think instead of dissuading them, i'm pretty sure that he reinforced their beliefs. well, most of the time, like Chin Leng said, the brashness of youth allows such advice to be turned into challenges, channeled into the desire to break the mould.
bottomline: i don't think negative persuasion works :P in fact, i think it beckons people to take up the challenge. especially in a class like 3216.
i like his pragmatic approach. if (and a very big one at that) one day, i become an entreprenuer, i would choose his & leslie's route. i think its important to stock up your resources before you embark on a journey. yea, sure, you could bulldoze your way through, but you'll probably going to need a lot more intelligence & resilience. pragmatism oozes from Hoong An actually, if you were like me and were kaypohing around after class, you would be able to see that from all the suggestions and advice he gave.
i-ran-out-of-awards: Ash from Interactive SG
unsurprisingly, Ash was flooded by the most people after the presentation. what impressed me immediately was how he offered everyone who brought an idea to him with a opportunity to go down to his office to pitch to him! opportunities have to be taken when given. in that LT last night, was opportunity to speak with 6 people prof ben considered successful. i think more of us should cherish these opportunities.
one of the highlights of the night was when ash displayed the title of his slide right after prof ben said "there is no formula to success". irony WIN.
other than that, a lot of what Ash said is rather consistent with what 3216 has been trying to tell us. that's cos Ash works in the online space, where the rules of engagement are different.
my personal favorite: Leslie from Redsport
cos i like sports and its about sports. plus i've already talked about redsport the other time :P i'm pretty excited to see how redsport grows with our local sports scene which is progressing at (sadly) a glacial speed.
recurring themes from the night
1) success = pain
"i must say i disagree with tong yee's point that sports do not teach skills that are transferable to the real world. sure, there are no hard skills, but there are soft skills aplenty."
ReplyDeleteYo jon, i don't think he meant it in that way. What he meant is that currently, in choosing one's school, CCAs like the sports play a huge factor in one's decision, BUT, after they've graduated, they seldom pursue these CCAs after school, probably it is a fact that there isn't much hope in one pursuing this avenue.
Contrast this to other lower profile CCAs like the AVA and computing clubs, whereby what they learn there are directly applicable to their probable future career.
I hope i'm making sense here :P
-reuben
i must say i disagree with tong yee's point that sports do not teach skills that are transferable to the real world.
ReplyDeleteLike Reuben says, he didn't articulate his position clearly in his talk. I mentioned the same to him after the talk and he clarified. :-)
yup. he probably didn't meant it that way, but thats how it came out anyways :P so i have to make a stand :) ahaha.
ReplyDeletehow often do you hear a successful person who tells you "we don't do this (which isn't even something wrong) because we don't believe in it".
ReplyDeleteSteve Jobs? But the fact is that many are not confident enough to stand up to their own opinion despite "conventional wisdom" telling them otherwise? When do we know that when we stick to our guns, we're right and not delusional or stubborn?
on the other hand, i think shelfing books, setting up visualisers, sitting in an aircon room can't achieve these as well.
*erhm erhm* as a former computer club president (haolian right? :P), I'm lucky that I'm exposed to more than just that during my days in computer club. But I have to agree with you, a lot of these "nerdy" CCAs are like this - it's a total waste of time for the students. It has so much potential to be more fun, meaningful and enriching.
Actually my concern is not about sports vs "nerdy" cca, but rather, how uniform groups play a part in the whole equation. I'm not saying that uniform groups are useless, I see its value. But like any ccas, it is not suited for everyone. This is where problems comes in, where 25% of the school population MUST be in uniform groups.
it is worth noting that in a lot of the independent schools which control their hiring,
government schools have a degree of control too. They can select from a pool of interested applicants for transfer to interview, but sadly, not much control for the kind of new teachers posted to them.
i'm a little acquainted with the whole NE framework and the problem with teachers
When I visited Norhtlight for my ISM research, I asked the principal, why isn't there a single NE message shown, like other schools? She said "it's integrated in our curriculum. Students live it, and learn it through living it." I think that's the way to go, instead of shuffing messages down the kid's throat.
Its not only about having confidence to stand up for your beliefs. I think there's also the aftermath where these "stubborn" decisions come back to bite you.
ReplyDeleteTo be equally fair, there are a lot of people in sports CCA who do jack. Conversely, someone who has drive, determination and vision could learn just as much from a "nerdy" CCA. But as you pointed out, the reality is that nerdy CCAs are often run by cant-be-bothered teachers with students just looking to fulfil the compulsory CCA requirements.
MOE/CCAB is well aware of the problem with Uniformed Groups and are working hard to rectify the issue. As with all the other MOE policy, i feel that the problem lies in:
1) The teachers who are in charge of the uniform groups
2) Some stigmatic problems due to how student officers have more control then they are supposed to
Yup.
@yan jie: WOW, you were a geek club president?
ReplyDelete@jon:
but there are soft skills aplenty. values such as tenacity, determination, discipline, teamwork are much better experienced in sports as opposed to the "nerdy" CCA. on the other hand, i think shelfing books, setting up visualisers, sitting in an aircon room can't achieve these as well.
I was the VP and Department Head in nanyang robotics club, and my guys slog their asses off. my juniors definitely have the tenacity and determination to fight with the most determined of sports ppl, and the teamwork is great. My juniors might not be as good/experienced as the robotics ppl from other JC's, all newbies, but they won for 2 years because of teamwork. we do emphasis on teamwork in your more 'physically-challenged' ccas as well.=)
I think that with the right culture, with the right people, geek cca's can impart this soft skills as well.
good grief. I cannot believe I am posting on a blog. This is a first for me. But since Prof Ben kindly requested then I am going to take out the time cos I think (even if it is for two to three people in this conversation) it is worth the effort to speak.
ReplyDeleteI think top on my heart right now is to apologise. If it is anything I did not mean to do was to discredit the experience that sports CCAs bring. The strange thing is that I too was a sportsman. but also from the chess club, library and drama club. Coming from that strange range of CCAs and loving each one of them, I wonder where it comes from that I spoke so strongly for clubs and societies and unfairly disparaged other CCA experiences.
I guess teaching for this many years has had me see, and maybe even embody, the pain ( i do not exaggerate) that some clubs and societies go through. It is an unfair dichotomy but clubs and societies have victimized themselves over the years and seen themselves as oppressed by the favouritism shown to leadership, sports and performance CCAs. It happens on an individual level. Something that is revealed in counseling and working through issues with students who struggle with self-esteem issues and disbelief that things are possible. I know it is bizarre but quite a substantial degree of their beliefs come from a negative CCA experience.
And yes, likewise, people who are doing well in life seem to have had great experiences through sports, teamwork, coaching. So indeed, all of you were right to point out that sports does wonderful things. And I myself have to learn how to explain this vision clearer such that it fairly represents people's experiences.
What surprises me (or does not surprise me) is how people have so far responded to that pitch. Almost always (so far) it has been vehement objection in support of sports, or resounding support from those who were part of geek clubs. But inevitably people were comparing what I said with their own experience, measuring the validity of the idea through what they experienced to be true or not true. But I guess that observation in itself, is a point. Our work does not stand for defending our own experience; but rather in supporting or enhancing the experience of others. And that requires us to think less along the lines of what we went through but listening to what others have gone through and seeing what we can do about it.
I have since learnt (my last painful lesson being this entrepreneurship talk) that I have to be a lot more careful with my explanation of this new business. For one thing, this initiative is new. And it is probably going to rock the boat. But it is also very important work that I cannot jeopardize through my insensitivity (passionate or not).
So what is on my heart most right now is gratitude. If indeed through this vision, we do indeed bring about positive change to CCA learning then it is also cos you guys spoke up. So ya, thank you.
and wow... that posting is in a really nice font. anybody knows what it is called?
ReplyDeletethe font is trebuchet MS.
ReplyDeletei was not at all offended. like i previously mentioned, i know you probably didn't mean to downplay sports :P
you're absolutely right that we (as students, especially at that point in time) perceive CCAs in certain stigmas - often highly impacted by what the school places focus on.
in the top schools, there are the good (medal/award winning) CCAs, and the "nerdy" CCAs. the stigmas are very ingrained in the students. even a "nerdy" sport will remain a "nerdy" sport, until a very passionate teacher comes along and changes the fate of that CCA.
i am in full support of helping these "nerdy" CCAs undergo transformation.
i think this statement is cool for an educator: Our work does not stand for defending our own experience; but rather in supporting or enhancing the experience of others.
in summary, i stand by my words that night - i'm very happy, comforted and proud that a business like the thought collection exists in Singapore!